Question:
Sergei Rachmaninoff vs. Art Tatum: Who would win in a duel?
I have a problem
2012-05-23 08:56:12 UTC
Before you rant on about how this is going to be "subjective" (yes it IS, that's why I'm asking it from YOUR point of view), let me explain that this subject is meant to be discussed with certainty and opinion, not necessarily facts (it is impossible to factually judge these two great artists since art is such a complex and universal matter and if I am correct, guarantees a far wider debate with even more depth than say, politics or sciences).

Anyway, so let's imagine.

Also please do know both of their music before you reply. This helps eliminate possible biased opinions. I don't want a fanboy war.

Art Tatum, the world-renowned jazz pianist, plays a concert. Rachmaninoff is seated at the very front (if the sources are correct, Rach found Tatum's music very interesting and worthy of exaltation), and then is welcomed to the stage.

Two of the unquestionably greatest pianist-composers who ever lived, both with massive reputations, decide to play a duet to awe the audience.

So they start improvising, playing, creating, innovating, tampering, pouring out all the art from their mind, body, and soul, for an entire day.

It's a friendly rivalry. Each does their very best, draining all the energy from the infinitude of ideas and philosophies from their souls to the instrument.

I imagine Rachmaninoff doing all his impressive, melancholic tunes, his frightening massive, fast chords, while Tatum tears up the keys with all sorts of technical figures in different keys in the right hand while playing 180 bpm stride leaps on the left hand.

Now, assuming we have all the great musicians in the world from both Classical and Jazz, who would they find more impressive?

Who would YOU find more impressive?
Eleven answers:
petr b
2012-05-23 10:57:01 UTC
Igor Stravinsky and Vladimir Horowitz both very much admired Art Tatum for his ability - to improvise brilliantly on the fly as well as for his phenomenal technique.



Both Stravinsky and Horowitz would go to hear him if they could when he was performing.



Horowitz is quoted as saying that if Tatum had instead decided to become a classical pianist, that Horowitz would be out of a job.



I will take the opinion and estimation of Art Tatum's 'net worth as a musician and pianist' from one of the greatest composers and from one of the greatest of pianists for what it they are worth.



Having cited the opinions of two of the world's historically 'top musicians,' adding my modest professional "Seconding or third-ing your opinions, Maestro Stravinsky, Maestro Horowitz." has so little weight as to be not necessary :-)



As to the duel question - it would be like racing an ostrich against a porpoise - no point, no contest, no measure between such different species to determine 'which won.'



I think it was Bartok who said "Competitions are for animals, not musicians."





Best regards.
cocoran
2016-11-07 15:44:05 UTC
Sergei Rachmaninoff Quotes
GeneParmesan
2012-05-23 09:27:54 UTC
It's an interesting thought exercise, but ultimately flawed. Could Rachmaninoff have actually improvised with Tatum? Improvisation was at the heart of Tatum's art, but that's not necessarily true for Rach. So if it then becomes a contest of who improvises better in front of an audience of "all the great musicians in the world from both Classical and Jazz", Tatum probably wins. But is this supposed to be a contest? In your question you call it a duel, yet in the story you call it a duet. Big difference. Artists of Art Tatum's and Rachmaninoff's stature certainly wouldn't have anything to do with a musical duel of techniques.



Rachmaninoff would be out of his element improvising at an Art Tatum concert and would be a fool to even attempt it. Schoenberg used to hang out with Gershwin and admired his music greatly, yet he would never have attempted any kind of duel or duet with Gershwin.



Just my opinion.
Mordent
2012-05-23 15:56:12 UTC
Rachmaninov once said "if this man ever decides to play serious music we're all in trouble"



Stravinski held Tatum in extremely high regard - not just for his technical prowess but also his musicality.



Rubinstein was asked what he was doing in a dive bar and responded that he was listening to the greatest musician there ever was.



Anyone can see that Tatum was beyond a genius.
Fiery
2012-05-23 09:57:29 UTC
I could assume that Rachmaninoff would probably be the better overall pianist but how could anyone know for sure. Rachmaninoff was probably one of the greatest piano performers ever. He performed his whole lifetime, something most renown composers (even Liszt) never had the energy to do.



The reasons I go with Rachmaninoff are two-fold:



1. Rachmaninoff was clearly more well-rounded. Could read sheet music, could improvise (not as well as Art, of course), probably as technically proficient as Liszt, and his ability to write and understand music of all types (symphonic, chorale, piano) and eras. Rachmaninoff is also a world renown composer - forget piano skills altogether. While he might not be able to play jazz well, I am sure he understood exactly how jazz worked in theory. He was a musical genius.



2. Art Tatum is over-romanticized for the wrong things. He should be remembered mainly for his innovations in the genre of jazz. Not only as a technician.





Art Tatum is truly a jazz innovator. When you compare him to Oscar Peterson and some of the other great jazz pianists his music isn't always as interesting. But people have to remember that comparing Art Tatum to Oscar Peterson is kind of like comparing Beethoven to Rachmaninoff (jazz developed and changed very quickly). Art Tatum, to me, is not just a piano virtuoso or piano performer - he is one of the most influential jazz pianists to ever exist - shaping the future of jazz.



The problem is that Art Tatum is over-romanticized for the WRONG things. People always bring back Horowitz's quote "If Art Tatum ever seriously studied classical music I would quit". My argument is speculation because I have never met Horowitz but I can almost guarantee you that it was meant only as a nice compliment because Horowitz probably realized for the first time in his life that there was something he couldn't play well - jazz.



Art Tatum should be romanticized not for his technical playing per-say, but what he actually did with the music. I would argue that since Rachmaninoff's musical style was out of it's time, that his extreme level of virtuosity was one of the main things that helped immortalize most of his music. It doesn't matter if Art Tatum plays 40 bpm or 180 bpm, as his music, regardless, is the cornerstone of jazz piano. That is why Art Tatum should be remembered as an innovator first and a technician last.





It's really unfair to make me compare the two because Rachmaninoff clearly had no interest in being able to sit down at the piano and improvise jazz while Art Tatum clearly had no interest in the classical repertoire or "formal composition". I personally see Rachmaninoff as a more well-rounded virtuoso while I see Art Tatum as the Beethoven or Bach of jazz. Rachmaninoff was clearly a better pianist than Beethoven (we can know this from the music that they both wrote - also Rachmaninoff had the retrospect of 100+ years of musical evolution) but without Beethoven Rachmaninoff couldn't have ever existed or came into his own. - Without Art Tatum could Oscar Peterson and Erroll Garner be as successful as they were?



So who would win in a duel? Highly opinionated as it depends which music you enjoy more. Both Rachmaninoff and Art Tatum were entertainers and were good at it.



The fundamental problem with this question though, is that Rachmaninoff would have a lot of trouble playing along with Art Tatum and Art Tatum would have a lot of trouble playing along with Rachmaninoff. Art Tatum was the better improviser but many people falsely assume that classical musicians are bad at improvisation because they read from sheet music, but I can guarantee you that most of the renown classical composers could hold their own in improvisation. If you compose classical music, you clearly have the ability to improvise. If you only perform classical music, you probably cannot improvise well, if at all.
Jack Herring
2012-05-23 09:20:39 UTC
I'll have to vote for Rachmaninoff. I love Earl Hines, Oscar Peterson, Fats Waller, but Art Tatum's style is just to busy for me and gets on my nerves very quickly. A friend of mine recently gave me a CD of Art Tatum and after listening to it once I am wondering what to do with it. I hate to throw it away and my friend may think me rude if I gave it back. I can keep it but I know I will never listen to it again.
Kylee
2016-02-25 02:32:07 UTC
Depends on what's at stake. If Harry wouldn't come out even more the hero in the end, then he'd be the victor. If Cedric winning just made us more sympathetic to Harry in the end, it'd probably happen that way. The duel would be a plot tool, and remember, Harry is always the Hero in the end. ;)
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2016-02-15 19:12:27 UTC
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2016-04-06 05:14:55 UTC
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Seeing's how Cedric is also a vampire, I'm going to have to say Harry Potter.
anonymous
2012-05-23 08:58:58 UTC
haha i did a report on sergei but know nothing of the other guy. Sergei was pretty good pianist and composer and made lots of songs. Again, nvr heard of that guy.
Elvis Fix
2012-05-23 19:27:29 UTC
Well, Rach has pretty big hands...


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