Question:
Schirmer editions and such?
Picardy Bird
2011-11-18 21:45:39 UTC
Yes, so, I am being bullied because I use Schirmer editions.

I am very aware that Schirmer isn't always, you know, urtext, but they are nicely made and cheaper than Henle and all those other expensive, only slightly different editions. I am not a purist in the sense that I absolutely *need* every single aspect of a piece to remain true to the composer's intentions - though, of course, anything obviously different is going to irk me - but I am surrounded by people who *do* need it all to be exact. So, I have maybe three Schirmer editions, and I use them to learn, but I am very embarrassed about carrying them around school because my peers think I am stupid for using them. Really, I am just frugal. Of course I prefer Henle.

Yesterday we had a master class, where a friend and I both played the same Haydn sonata. We've each learned from different editions, though, so during the class we ended up comparing her Henle to my Schirmer. They were really small differences, but they all added up - two sets of triplets as opposed to one set of six; a mordent instead of a trill; slightly different pedalling. It sort of felt like I was cheated out of an interpretation of the piece I could have developed if I'd had the "proper" edition. I'm wondering if the differences in Schirmer editions and urtext editions are significantly numerous or if this is just blown slightly out of proportion to its relative importance.

What is your opinion?
Five answers:
petr b
2011-11-18 22:40:42 UTC
You've stumbled upon the truth in actual practice yourself!



Editors are not always the best of musicologists. Some jobs are farmed out to other individuals, 'accredited' I'm sure, but not really qualified for the work on the piece at hand.



If I recall, some of the Schirmer Chopin (nocturnes) had wrong notes in them! (This from years ago - but when engraving is involved, the cost of a correction is high, and often run after run will go out, the errors not removed or corrected.)



This is not uncommon, that an editor facing the intuitive choice of a creative genius will say, "That can't be! They must have meant ___ and not ____," and then had the pluck to alter it, usually going with more academic textbook model theory, and most likely working from sundry older editions vs. manuscripts.



When the Frank Gehry / Walt Disney music pavilion opened, conductor Esa-Pekka Salonen and orchestra members discovered, because of a much clearer acoustic, that players parts for Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe were peppered with wrong notes, not agreeing with the score - that possible because parts to be extracted from the score are often farmed out to other engravers on staff, or outside copyists. (Twenty experts working on something together for twenty days will make twenty mistakes - a known phenomena.)



The Bach / Gounod Ave Maria has an added measure due to Gounod relying upon a less than perfect Bach edition. "(found in the Schwenke manuscript and the Simrock printed edition based upon it, but not in the other Bach manuscripts or the scholarly Bischoff and G. Henle Verlag Urtext printed editions.)" ~ Wiki - reliable enough here :-)



A score is a clear set of directions of what the player is to do, often phrasing and the slight accenting of groups indicated, as you have mentioned, in note-beaming. I rate the differences between not correct to correct as critical.



And if you want frugal, just recall that truly frugal is to initially spend more on quality for something which lasts. If you are going to own and use that edition of the complete Haydn sonatas the rest of your life, the paper and the binding of the Schirmer are infinitely inferior to the physical quality of the Henle. The Schirmer will tear and wear more readily, and become brittle and discolor more rapidly, too: the binding is much more likely to come undone as well. Purchasing the Schirmer three times in your life (may you live long and healthy) becomes More Expensive than purchasing the Henle once.... You have a common misconception of 'frugal,' at least where the purchase of sheet music is concerned.



There is no price one can asses to put on the amount of time it takes to undo a mistake repeated for months on end. The way our brain works learning things, it takes about twenty times of both effort and time to undo something wrongly learned once it is learned incorrectly. To find at the last minute before an exam or performance that something is incorrect and needs to be changed is harrowing, no matter how quickly you may adapt on the fly.





Best regards.



P.s. "top-rate performers of their time," especially of the romantic era and early 1900's, were loaded for bear with distorted later accumulated affectations, fashions and mannerisms of their own time imposed on earlier repertoire. When they edited earlier music, those later era affectations and manners are often found on and in the score: they should be regarded as period documents which include the fashions of the era in which they were edited, not musicologically correct editions of earlier music. (Arthur Rubenstein -- no less great than he was -- if playing Chopin now as he did, would probably not get past the first round in the international Chopin competition, ticked down for 'mannered' playing and too much rubato.)

The point made about Schirmer editions and contemporary composers working with the editors is more than valid, but that more than likely precludes the existence of a Henle edition in the first place :-) The dover editions are also known to have errors here and there, more a matter of a slip of the engraver than distorted editing, and again, though good, lesser quality paper.



P.p.s. Worry only about what is the best edition, with the least errors or later era mannerisms varnished on by way of editing. If you were really worried about people 'making fun of you.' you wouldn't be so diligently pursuing classical music and performance ;-)
2011-11-18 22:46:42 UTC
Schirmer editions are just as important to look at and study as well as the Henle urtext editions or whatever other publishers of urtext editions you may use, because more often than not they are edited by top-rate performers of their time. For the purposes of performing, you may want to ask your teacher about which edition you should use. Use the Schirmer editions of 20th century music, as the composer oftentimes had direct dealings with publishers - instead of selling their music to one major publisher and then have a popular performer edit the piece (often making shortcuts and additions that the composer would have never agreed upon) as was the wont of the Romantic and Post-romantic era performers. I understand the necessity of being frugal; if you don't want to order the Schirmer editions because people will make fun of you, try looking in some used bookstores. Oftentimes you can find used copies of Henle or other urtext publishers on the cheap. And if you want an urtext edition for cheap, check out music published by Dover - they like to print out urtext and first editions of pieces. If you are using individual pieces out of the books, they why not look in your local university library and make copies of pieces from the Henle scores? That can also save you the trouble of buying a whole book just for the sake of one piece.
markus
2016-11-07 13:41:19 UTC
Schirmer Performance Editions
?
2016-03-19 04:53:11 UTC
The rest is there for a reason. If you are at all serious about Chopin's piano works, there is only ONE worthwhile edition upon which most Chopin experts and musicologists agree: The National Edition, Polskie Wydawnictwa Muzyczne These editions are recommended for all contestants of the International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition. The Preludes are available in a single volume. I urge you to make the expense for your benefit and pleasure. The edition is certainly worth the price. Personally, I avoid most Schirmer editions of Bach, Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven, Schumann, etc. for many reasons, one of them being the one cited by your teacher. best regards, petr b.
2011-11-18 21:46:23 UTC
I am sorry ,I have not idea


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