Question:
Can you name some instruments which composers ask for but usually don't get?
suhwahaksaeng
2009-08-06 19:31:40 UTC
I just learned that Scriabin asks for Prometheus to be played with an organ which displays colors.
Most orchestras are unable or unwilling to buy such an expensive instrument for just one composition, so they usually go without.

I can name a few more compositions in which a composer doesn't get what he asks for, but first, I want to see how many you can name.
Nine answers:
hafwen
2009-08-06 20:50:38 UTC
Hi Suhwahaksaeng,



An interesting question indeed - and the first instrument that comes to my mind is the ophicleide - a strange, rauscous beast, widely used in the 19th century orchestra. It was almost obsolete until a recent concerted effort to bring it back from almost certain oblivion.



The ophicleide is a type of keyed bugle, descending from the Renaissance serpent (not the saxophone, as some historians maintain!) Its long tubing bends back on itself, rather like a bassoon, and played with a cupped mouthpiece.



It was invented in the early 19th century, and was widely used in the orchestra at that time. The ophicleide's name comes from the Greek words for "serpent" and "keys", since it was conceived of as a serpent with keys.



Some familiar orchestral works which score for ophicleide include Mendelssohn's Overture to "A Midsummer Night's Dream" and Berlioz's "Symphonie Fantastique" (which asks for both ophicleide and serpent, but rarely are they employed nowadays.) Verdi and Wagner also composed for ophicleide.



The ophecleide is notoriously difficult to play, and the sound quite unpredictable and difficult to control - and it was eventually succeeded by tuba and euphonium - which now usually substitute for this wonderful, relatively neglected dinosaur.



The Wagner tuba is another instrument which is not always available - but I'll star this question and hope that Alberich notices!



In the meantime, feast your ears on this ophicleide ensemble...I was pleasantly surprised to spot a fellow Aussie amongst them!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUS-NJ8nSnI



Aren't they marvellous?



Cheers,

Hafwen xox



ADDED:

Alberich: Wagner wrote ophicleide parts in some of his earlier operas - "Rienzi" - and I think "Flying Dutchman," too...
del_icious_manager
2009-08-07 04:00:42 UTC
Geoff: with the set of orchestral parts to Respighi's 'Pines of Rome' comes with a gramophone record (possibly a CD or computer file now) of the precise birdsong the composer requested. So this is always relatively easily included in all performances of the pieces.



As far as I know, Wagner tubas are never substituted for any thing else. There are enough sets of instruments in existence for orchestras to hire them in as necessary and give them to the poor horn players who have to try to learn to play the things in tune.



Many French composers called for a contrabass sarrusophone instead of a contrabassoon in their works. The sarrusophone family of instruments was to the oboe/bassoon family what the saxophones were to the clarinets. They were brass saxophone-like instruments with a double reed. They never caught on, unfortunately, because they have a lovely sound. Probably the best known piece to call for a contrabass sarrusophone which never gets it is Ravel's 'Rapsodie espagnole', where the part will be played in a contrabassoon.



Charles Ives' Fourth Symphony asks for a Theremin (à la Beach Boys' 'Good Vibrations'), but this is nearly always replaced by an Ondes Martenot or (nowadays) an electronic keyboard.



Several Romantic (mostly German) composers asked for a small clarinet in D, most famously Richard Strauss's 'Till Eulenspiegel'. This is almost uiniversally replaced by its very close sister the E flat clarinet.



There is sometimes some confusion over the difference between a bass oboe (as in Holst's 'Planets') and a Heckelphone (as in Strauss's 'Salome' and 'Alpine Symphony') and sometimes one is confused or mistakenly replaced with the other. The bass oboe is predominantly a French and British instrument an octave below the oboe, while the similarly-pitched Heckelphone is German in origin. The Heckelphone has a wider bore and a louder, coarser sound to the bass oboe.



Pehaps most famous instrument that never gets supplied is in Ravel's 'Boléro', which calls for a rare solo for the tiny E flat sopranino saxophone. This is nearly always played on a B flat soprano saxophone as it lies comfortably within range and sopraninos are very rare and notoriously difficult to play in tune.
petr b
2009-08-07 00:49:23 UTC
For the sake of the less esoterically informed, I thought I would point out most of the above mentioned composers were being reasonable and practical in composing for these now 'exotic' instruments.



There are often extra-musical requirements (light organ being one) required by composers of Opera: Horses (Wagner, at least), Elephants (Verdi), etc. Can we assume the question excludes non-musical elements, including light-organ?



Most of the instruments listed here are later substituted due to their 'retirement' from general usage, or if still available but obscure are often substituted as a matter of economy.



Ravel's Tzigane accompaniment was for a readily available Lutheal, granted, new and exotic at the time of composing but readily available. The new instrument probably was a stimulus for the piece. (For this delightful news - to me - of the existence of the Lutheal, thank you Mr. Selick!)



Schubert's Arpeggione was likely commissioned by a friend who was a virtuoso of the new instrument. Again, not a composer writing for some obscure, idealized instrument.



Scriabin's color organ, a silent electronic machine which operated a range of lights via a piano / organ style keyboard, existed when he was asking for this synesthetically conceived instrument. The fact it was not a massive pipe-organ like installation makes this composer's desire to include it not impractical. (The work was performed with the 'organ' in post WW1 England.)



Wagner would most certainly not be one to compose for obscure instruments which then needed to be tracked down and players netted in ~ he too was composing for readily available instruments and reliable players thereof.



Stravinsky called for all-male choristers in his Symphony of Psalms. The piece is performed most often with adult females singing the treble roles. The Stravinsky conducted recording on Columbia is thus, and it is a good guess if Stravinsky had asked for / demanded child male treble choristers, he would have gotten them.



Tchaikovsky's Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies, now known for its use of Celeste, was first conceived of for Glass Harmonica. During a visit in Paris while in the Pleyel showrooms, Tchaikovsky was shown the brand-spanking new Celeste which was still under wraps. He was very taken with it and he left the Pleyel showrooms with an exclusive agreement: Pleyel would not make the instrument public or available until after its debut in the world premier of the Nutcracker Ballet.



Saint-Saens originally composed the Carnival of the Animals for Glass Harmonica (especially the melody for the 'Goldfish' movement) : a Celeste is most often substituted. (because Celeste was 'the new rage' or because the new instrument's availablity made it much more pragmatic than a Glass Harmonica?)



Stravinsky's Threni calls for a Contrabass Sarrusophone. This is a rare critter. But certainly, the composer knew one would be available, and along with the certainty of being Stravinsky, he could rely on an orchestra being willing to pay the double or extra player fee.



Resphigi composing those songs and operas for singers with rare voice qualities and freakish range capabilities? He was composing for singers he knew.



Ned Rorem composing those soprano songs, the range of which goes up into the Minnie-Ripperton territory upper stratosphere ~ a singer he knew.



p.b.



EditADD / P.s. It seems we have all overlooked a blazing flash of the obvious: real field artillery Cannon and real, large, cast Church Bells in that Tchaikovsky chestnut of chestnuts, The 1812 Overture!
?
2009-08-06 20:24:17 UTC
I think the organ is the most likely to be in this category especially if the composer has specified a specific registration that may not be available on the organ within concert hall.



The piano forte is often substituted for fortepiano. Celeste and Ondes Martenot are likely to be substituted by a digital keyboard ... that may be true for some organ works too (well, substituting a reasonable digital organ for a winded pipe instrument.)



Any number of early strings, winds, and brass instruments have been updated with modern instruments. Wooden six-key flutes have given way to metal (silver, gold, titanium alloy) Boehm system instruments. Flutes will often play the parts of recorders in baroque pieces as well when performed in large halls.
MissLimLam
2009-08-07 20:58:48 UTC
Since everybody else has given so many specific examples I will complain about the treatment of a piece I wrote, by a student chamber orchestra.



I scored it for the following: violins, violas, bass viola da gamba, contrabass viola da gamba, flauto traverso, oboe, lute and basso continuo.



They replaced the viols with the equivalent from the violin family, which I did not mind. They replaced the traverso with a flute, which I did not mind... but they also replaced the oboe with a clarinet, the lute with a guitar, and they did not have a bassoon playing the continuo along with the harpsichord (as I had specified.). This made me so angry, that I told them never to play it again... and I wrote a new piece for their instrumentation!



I get annoyed when people use modern equivalents for baroque instruments. Like using a clarinet instead of a salmoé. It was horrifying... almost as horrifying as hearing a piano play an organ or harpsichord piece.
Alberich
2009-08-06 21:34:51 UTC
I don't know how common "real" thunder-machines are(Wagner scores one for the final scene of "Das Rheingold), but I know that a specially constructed one was made for the Solti iconic recording of it: the very first then dubbed "stereophonic" recording.



And it's the loudest recorded sound I've ever heard; it occurs on this You Tube video at 1:58:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcVjGBNrlCs



"Steehorns" are scored for both "Die Walkure" and "Die Gotterdammerung"(not sure, but think there are none in "Siegfried" nor "Das Rheingold". And these I believe are rarely if ever heard in most performances of the Ring. Solti did demand and got them for his recording).



"Hafwen", what a wonderful video: thank you. I had never heard of the "Ophicleide". They sound to me like a cross between a French Horn and a Trombone; and what a gorgeous sound.



But are you sure about Wagner having scored them? I checked the Ring's instrumentation, and none are listed:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Ring_des_Nibelungen#Instrumentation



Which opera(s) did he score them for?



Great question "suhawahaksaen",



Alberich
sting
2009-08-06 21:21:29 UTC
Ravel's Tzigane was written for Lutheal but was eventually transcribed for the piano because the instrument became quickly obsolete.



Mozart's Turkish March

Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata

Hell, most harpsichord works are now performed on the piano.
Geoff H
2009-08-06 19:51:14 UTC
I know Ottorino Respighi requested that an actual recording of a bird rather than a bird-noise-making instrument (I don't know what they're called haha) be used in the Pines of Rome. I'm not sure how often orchestras use a recording, but I know it can't be all the time.
Evas
2009-08-07 09:20:56 UTC
Glass harmonica, it has other names but I am not sure what they are. Mozart and Beethoven are among about a dozen composers in all who wrote for it in the 18th century. Just a guess. This is a great, albeit hard question.


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